Erik Seidel - Part II

A Concerned Poker Champ

Talks About Some Major Issues in Poker

Leaving the Big Apple in 1995 to further pursue his career as a poker pro in Las Vegas was a huge move for Erik Seidel. I asked the lean and lanky champ what there is about the City, the cosmos, and the culture that's so hard to shake when people move away from that milieu. "The atmosphere is great, there are all types of different people, and you can walk or take the subway everywhere," he explained. "And there's a lot of culture – plays, great music, and all the movies. I still miss it." (Was he saying that New York City has more culture than Las Vegas?!)

"Moving was a big risk. A lot of people thought that since I had never lived outside the City, I wouldn't like living here," he stated. "I also was concerned, but I've grown to like it." Unlike many transplanted Easterners, Seidel does not have a distinctive accent, hinting that he has become well acclimated to the sun and fun of the gambling capital of the world. Interviewing him across his kitchen table, I decided that he probably follows a regular health regimen – surely no couch potato could stay in such good shape. "I try to eat healthful food and I work out several days a week," he explained. "Right now, I'm working a little harder to get in shape for the World Series of Poker. My wife, Ruah, and I also play tennis together, and sometimes I play with (Card Player columnist) Jan Fisher."

Seidel met his wife while he was still playing backgammon for a living in New York City, long before he rose to the top of poker's totem pole, picking up four WSOP bracelets along the way – one in Omaha high-low, one in deuce-to-seven, and two in limit hold'em. Admittedly, he did not climb the ladder without the help of friends. "I was fortunate to have friends to learn from," he said. "I've learned a lot from Dan Harrington and Howard Lederer, and by watching players like Noli Francisco. Noli is a high-limit player from the East Coast who has a tremendous imagination. He once made a bet in a no-limit game that has become my favorite bet of all time – minus $125! That means that everyone in the pot took back $125 on the flop and then the dealer turned a card."

Dana Smith: Sounds as though you learned your lessons from some terrific tutors whom you met at the Mayfair Club.

Erik Seidel: Right. I developed my poker skills by playing with and watching a whole assortment of players. There is no substitute for live experience – you really need to get in the arena and play to become good at anything.

DS: However, there are some problems in the "arena," and I know that the health issue of smoking is a major item on your personal agenda. Here's the soapbox – take your stand.

ES: I think that smoking is the most important issue in poker. For a long time, poker players have been forced to play in a smoking environment, and dealers and floorpeople have been forced to work in one. I think it's pretty clear that there are health consequences associated with playing in smoking conditions. The good thing is that many casinos are becoming more and more aware that most of their customers want to play in nonsmoking environments and feel very strongly about it. Little by little the tournaments are becoming nonsmoking, and I think that the cardrooms are finding that rather than losing customers, they're gaining customers. That's true in tournaments as well as live games. Nonsmoking policies make good business sense.

I was playing in a cash game recently in which a pregnant young woman was dealing. It's a shame that she is forced to pursue her livelihood in an environment that is clearly not healthy for her. There are people who say, "Well, she could make a living somewhere else," but that's a lot easier to say than do. If you have a profession at which you make a good living, why should you be forced out of your job by the poor health conditions imposed upon you by secondhand smoke? Even if you ignore the health hazard of smoking, it's uncomfortable, it hurts your eyes, and it prevents some players from playing long hours because it affects their stamina.

It's good to see that the industry has been responding in the last couple of years, and that more and more tournaments have become nonsmoking. In other games – chess, bridge, and backgammon – the tournaments are all nonsmoking, so poker is a little bit behind the times in that respect. But poker is catching up, at least in this country, and I think that by this time next year, there's a decent chance that all tournaments in the United States will be nonsmoking. In fact, I've just heard that Tunica will be nonsmoking next year. I'm going to be there this year, but I know a lot of players who are not going because of the smoking. It's too bad that we have to make those choices.

DS: Can we talk about the conditions at the World Series of Poker for a moment? It seems to me that the environment at the World Series is particularly bad in regard to smokiness.

ES: Last year smoking was not allowed if you were a spectator, and the employees did not smoke. Conditions were a lot better than they were the year before, but the room still was very smoky. It was good to see that Binion's was responding, at least in part, to their customers, but it's still tough to get through that tournament for four weeks and maintain your health. I think that the Series eventually will become nonsmoking, and I hope it doesn't take too long.

DS: What is your circuit – do you play only the biggest tournaments?

ES: I've just gotten back into tournaments again after working in Southern California for eight months trading stock. I like to play the major events with $5,000 and higher buy-ins. Poker is expanding – Commerce is expanding its tournament, the Four Queens has just announced a new tournament, and the Isle of Mann is a big event – so there are more choices than ever. To quickly get back to the smoking issue again, all of these added tournaments create more choices for the dealers. Therefore, I expect that if a casino has an event that allows smoking, it may be harder to recruit dealers because now they have the option of dealing in a nonsmoking environment.

DS: Was playing the Isle of Mann tournament a kick?

ES: Yes, it was very exciting to participate in it. I think that it's going to bring a lot of people into the game. I'm not all that happy about playing with your cards exposed, but it has the potential of bringing sponsor money into the game and a lot more exposure for the players. I'm still a bit of a purist, though, and I think that the cards shouldn't be exposed.

DS: We should explain that cameras beneath the poker table show players' cards to the audience, but not to opponents. You don't want your cards to be shown because everybody can get a handle on your play? Or, you might embarrass yourself if you play a hand badly?

ES: Sure, for both of those reasons. You can make an awful play and everybody knows about it. Or, you could make a good play and everyone sees that, too.

DS: They use a different technique for dealing the cards in Europe, don't they?

ES: Yes. I've been considering writing an article on that, so let's see if I can state my views well enough here to save myself the effort. In Europe, the deck is laid flat on the table and the dealer deals one card at a time with his finger. I would like to see the tournaments and side games in the States dealt in the same way. Something dramatic happened to me last year that convinced me that the European method might be the best way to deal. I was playing at a table with a guy from the East Coast who spots cheaters for a living.

"I'm one of the best in the world at spotting cards as they are coming off the deck," he said. "Look at this dealer's technique. Notice how the cards are flipped upward so that you can see them." Then he started naming each card as it was being dealt.

To think that this guy was actually seeing so many cards flash was frightening. It was happening with new dealers as well as experienced dealers with bad technique – a lot of cards were flashing. Fortunately, this guy was honest and chose to point it out instead of take unfair advantage. He spotted cards for three dealers in a row and named them as they came off the deck. It was impressive that this man is so good, and the really scary part was that he said that he is only the second-best in the world at spotting cards. After seeing this happen and comparing it to how the cards are dealt in Europe, I decided that the European method of dealing is better than ours.

DS: Do other players ever ask you to back them in tournaments? Are you backed?

ES: I've backed players, but my experiences have not been good and I've lost a lot of money doing it. When I play in the very high games, very often I will take a partner. And when I first moved to Vegas, some high games were going on and I was staked in some of them. But in the tournaments, I'm on my own.

DS: Where do you usually play the high-stakes cash games?

ES: At the tournaments, and I like to play the big pot-limit and no-limit games when they have them at Bellagio. For a while I was playing just about every day at Bellagio, but it was just too much poker for me. I've stopped playing day-to-day poker because I want to have some more balance in my life. My focus now is mainly on tournaments and some of the side games that go on during them.

DS: Do you have any commentary about any of the "stuff" that goes on in poker?

ES: Stuff? That's pretty broad, Dana.

DS: We hear rumors that some players dump off their chips – you know, that stuff.

ES: Well, if it's going on, I have no direct evidence of it. I do know that there are many good players who I am certain are honest, and they have results that are in line with or better than expectation. I've heard a lot of talk about dumping off chips between players, but I honestly don't know to what extent it exists. Personally, I'm much more concerned about cards flashing, which could give someone a huge advantage over his opponents.

DS: What about making deals at the final table?

ES: My feeling about dealmaking is that the players are putting up their own money and they should be able to do anything they want to do with their earnings – unless sponsorship is involved, or a best all- around player or some such award is at stake.

DS: Another thing that is creating a lot of dialogue in poker these days is Tex Morgan's TEARS computer program for tournament structures. What is your opinion?

ES: I've played the TEARS system only once – at the championship event at the Reno Hilton's World Poker Open – and I thought it was terrific. I hope that all tournaments will begin to use it. The one complaint that I heard about the system was that the people who played the final table thought that it was far too fast, making it a virtual crapshoot.

DS: I talked with Morgan at the Peppermill tournament and he told me that the limits could easily be rolled back at the final table in accordance with Mike Sexton's suggestion in a recent Card Player column.

ES: I loved Mike's idea. Although there apparently was some miscalculation in that particular tournament, I like the idea of the TEARS structure and think that it is going to have a real positive impact on tournaments.

DS: What about the flattened payout structure that's popular in today's tournaments? In the old system, the winner received 40 percent, and it isn't unusual for it to be 28 percent when the prize pool is spread among more players.

ES: I understand the argument for flattening the payouts, and I expect that there will be some movement in that direction in tournaments. But I prefer the old system – it's nice to have a big payday when you win. In the World Series championship event, however, I believe that a flatter payout structure is good, because first-place money is such an overwhelming prize that 40 percent for first place isn't necessary. Plus, you receive the most prestigious title in poker if you win it.

DS: Is playing in the major no-limit hold'em tournaments a big, big event for you?

ES: Yes. For me it's a thrill to play high-stakes no-limit poker, or to be at the final table in a big tournament – I love it. When I'm playing limit poker, I don't feel that same kind of thrill. Playing no-limit probably is the equivalent of a drug rush. If you're playing well – all the gears are functioning, you're seeing the table clearly, and you're making good decisions – it's thrilling to make a judgment about a situation for a lot of money and be right. Of course, when you go broke because you were wrong, it's an entirely different feeling.

DS: The ecstasy of victory, the agony of defeat. As one of the world's premier poker players, certainly you have earned your stripes along with the personal satisfaction and monetary rewards that come with being at the head of the pack.