Capture the Flag: David Grey

David Grey is the definition of the consummate pro. He’s been playing professionally for about two decades, and has competed in the biggest live cash games around. He also was a member of the famous “Corporation,” a group of players who put their bankrolls together to play billionaire banker Andy Beal in heads-up games.

Kristy Arnett: How did you get your start playing cash games?

David Grey: I used to bet the horses for a living, and through the whole gambling scene — racetracks, bowling alleys, pool halls, and sports betting — I was eventually led to poker. But poker wasn’t my main thing by any stretch of the imagination when I moved out here [Las Vegas] in ’84, as I was still betting horses. I started playing seven-card stud at Caesars Palace in 1985. That was the only game they played there. I started playing $15-$30, and I never used to win.

KA: How did you turn it around?

DG: I had been out here for maybe six or eight months, and I was still betting the horses but also playing poker five or six days a week. I found that I lost most of the time, and I didn’t like that. I figured that there had to be something that I was doing wrong. A friend of mine knew Doyle [Brunson], and I met him. I had gotten his book, but I hadn’t read it, so the first thing I did was read it from cover to cover. The seven-card stud section, which was the only game I played at the time, was really quite enlightening to me, because I found that I was doing everything sort of backward. I would get a good hand like aces or kings and let a lot of people into the pot, making it easier for me to get outdrawn. Then, sometimes I would gamble with garbage. It was a 180-degree turnaround from the proper way to play. I read that book, and then I started to really pay attention to some of the better players in the game.

I would watch those players, and when their hands were turned up, I would reconstruct them and look at when they were raising and when they were calling, things like that. After about six months, I went from never winning to winning quite consistently. At the end of about a year or so, I was one of the better players. It took a lot of hard work and observation, and fortunately I had a knack for it.

KA: Did you ever struggle with bankroll management?

DG: Well, I didn’t struggle with it, I just went broke all the time [laughing]. But that was very common from my past. I used to go broke often at the racetrack, and go borrow money from my friends. I might lose a few weeks straight, and then all of a sudden win $15,000 in a couple of days, and pay them all back and start over again. During tournament time in the early ’90s, like the World Series of Poker and the Hall of Fame tournament at Binion’s Horseshoe in December, bigger games would run. I would play $200-$400 and $300-$600, and that was remarkably bigger than the regular $50-$100 that we’d been playing for a few years. If you lost two days in a row at that limit, it could be $20,000 or $30,000 at a time, and it takes quite a while to win that much at $50-$100, so I definitely had some upward mobility that got knocked down in the bigger games. Sometimes I’d win $50,000 or $100,000, but I was definitely on a rocky road for a while.

KA: What advice would you give players who have trouble dealing with tilt?

DG: I don’t think you can really deal with it. You either have it or you don’t. Everyone is going to have losing times, and if you completely crumble when you are losing, it’s going to be almost impossible to overcome. So, if you are a person who is incredibly emotional and goes on tilt very easily, I would say that you should play only tournaments, because you can’t tilt off your bankroll in a tournament. If you lose all of your chips, you’re done. Let’s say that you lose all of your chips in the first hour of a tournament. What are you going to do for the rest of the day? You can go see a movie, because maybe the next tournament that you want to play isn’t for a couple of days.

In cash games, the reason that players seem to play long hours when they are stuck and get completely buried is twofold. If they are lucky, they can play 90 percent as well as when they are winning. So, not only don’t they play as well when they are losing, but the people they are counting on to throw their money away — the weaker players who often go on tilt when they lose — are probably winning because they’re losing, resulting in better decision-making by these weaker players. So, the combination of your opponents playing better than normal and you playing worse than normal is usually a recipe for disaster.

KA: Over the years, I’m sure that you’ve witnessed some interesting situations. Do you have a quick story that you could share with me?

DG: You’re right, I have seen a lot at the poker table. Years ago, I was playing with Erik Seidel, and he had beaten George “The Greek” for days — hand after hand after hand. Finally, George told Erik that he was not allowed to play in the game anymore because he couldn’t beat Erik in a pot. Erik got up from the table and picked up his chips, and someone took his seat. Erik had The New York Times, and he sat two tables away reading it for three or four hours; finally, George told him he could play again. That was hysterical. Erik took it like no one I ever could have seen. I don’t know if you know who George “The Greek” was, but he was a very nasty man and a very bad player. He lost millions of dollars, and was the first super live one.

KA: Wow, that must have taken a lot of composure on Erik’s part. What other things are important in order for a player to have long-term success?

DG: Being a longtime pro has to do with a lot more than just playing hands correctly. You have to know what games you have advantages in; you have to be on the right schedule; you must have good control over your money; and your personality and temperament have a lot to do with it, as well. There are hundreds of little details.

KA: How often do you play these days?

DG: I play very little. I don’t think I’ve played 200 hours in the last two years. Considering that I used to play 30 to 40 hours a week, that’s not very much.

KA: Why is that? Are you burnt out?

DG: Well, there are a lot of reasons. It’s the nature of the game. There are seven or eight games now — triple draws, and some no-limit games with a cap, which makes for a terrible structure. Plus, there are a lot of good players, and even the weaker players are much better than what we would consider weaker players in the past. There’s just so much randomness in the games we play now that it’s frustrating. It’s annoying when you lose, and not that gratifying when you win. I used to love to play poker, and used to love to go to the racetrack. I used to get excited and entranced by gambling. After all of these years of being in it, and a lot of winning, and having a lot of other things on my mind now, it’s not like I have to grind it out to pay my bills, so it’s not as exciting anymore. Poker is the ultimate game of pain. You are either giving it or getting it, and sometimes it is only 30 seconds between the two of them.