Online Poker: Interview With Dani 'Ansky' Stern

Dani "Ansky" Stern is trying to break the curse that successful cash-game poker players are less recognizable than successful tournament players. Kicking ass at high-stakes cash games is a good start for that plan. Becoming a trainer for the highly respected poker training site PokerSavvy Plus is a good follow-through. It's hard to argue with someone who can not only kill cash games but also explain the luck away by walking you through how he does it.

Despite his success, Stern continues to go to college. He picked up poker in his early years of college, and the game helped him ward off having to get a "real" job. He's in his final year at McGill University in Montreal, Canada, and he's gunning for a history degree that he hopes to never have to use.

"I'm going to get a degree, but I'm definitely not getting a job when I graduate," Stern said. "I'm going to travel the circuit and play poker and see the world, at least for a little while. I'm basically a professional poker player already, so I don't know why I would finish school and get a [different] job all of a sudden. To be honest, I don't really know what field I would get into if I wasn't in poker. I know a lot of poker players who are moving toward finance as they drift away from poker, so maybe something like that, but I really don't know. I couldn't imagine myself working at a desk all day, really."

Card Player recently teamed up with PokerSavvy Plus to offer Card Player Pro, a poker training solution that Card Player readers can test out for free. (Click here for more info on that.) Stern is among the stable of professional trainers for the site. Card Player snagged him for an interview to see if he knew what he was talking about - he did.


Shawn Patrick Green: What is your primary attraction to poker?

Dani "Ansky" Stern: I think my primary attraction to the game itself, the playing aspect, is that it is mentally challenging. Especially when you're playing in the high-stakes games against the same players over and over again, and they're very good players, you really get into a lot of mental battles with each other, and it really becomes a lot about outthinking your opponent, outsmarting them. It becomes really fun when you're able to do it well, and it really gets gratifying to know that, for all of the work you've put into it, you can outplay other people, and you can outthink other people who are good players. You might have just a little bit of an edge against them, and you take that edge and you really exploit it.

But as far as the game as a whole, I like the freedom that it allows. I really don't ever want to work at a desk all day. I like the fact that I can wake up and see if there are any good games and then just play for a couple of hours, relax for a couple of hours, and then play another session. Or I can just not play for a while if I don't see any good games. It's total freedom.

SPG: Did you have a strategy for climbing the ranks into the high-stakes cash games?

DS: Some people use the term "bankroll nit" for people who are very conservative about their bankrolls and who really have to win a lot of money at a given stake before moving up. I don't think I would describe myself that way. I've always been pretty aggressive with my bankroll. I've never done anything crazy - I've never put my entire bankroll on the line or really risked going bust - but I've always made it my goal that when I was playing $1-$2 I wanted to move up to $2-$4, and when I was at $2-$4 I wanted to move up to $3-$6. So, I think never really having the mindset that, "OK, I'm satisfied with where I am, so I'm just going to keep going with this," was good. It's always been more about, "Keep going. Make it to the next level. Make it to the next level." Your bankroll, at least for me, for a while, is just like points in a game. I was just set on getting more points.

SPG: What kind of benchmark did you set that would determine when you would go to the next level?

DS: I never once played a game wherein I had less than 25 or 30 buy-ins. I mean, 25 is really cutting it close, in my opinion. I occasionally would take shots when I had 25 buy-ins, or so, in my bankroll at that stake - maybe even less, but I would sell off some action. But I think the general benchmark, the minimum you should move up with if you're seriously considering permanently moving up, should be 30 buy-ins at an absolute minimum. But even then, you have to recognize it as a shot, and if you start losing right away, you should be able to quickly move down so that you don't risk losing a lot of money.

SPG: You're big on the shorthanded cash games online. Is there a reason you prefer shorthanded games?

DS: My favorite game is heads up, but it's hard to get a lot of action in heads-up games, for me, so I play a lot of sixhanded and shorter games. Basically, when you're playing a full-ring game there are standard decisions at almost every point. You can't be quite as creative or quite as outside the box when you're playing full ring. But when you're playing shorthanded, or even up to sixhanded, there is a lot of room to make some non-standard plays and to be tricky. One of the reasons that sixhanded games are so popular among good players is because it forces you, in optimal play, to play more hands. There are these players who play mostly full-ring games, and they hardly play any hands and just sit around and wait until they hit a set and stack the fish, basically. If they do that in a sixhanded game, they'd get killed; the blinds come around too often, and optimal play dictates that you have to play more hands. So, I really like the fact that you have to get in there and mix it up, and you have to be on your toes the entire time when playing shorthanded.

SPG: Well, so it sounds like you're saying that in a full-ring game, like a nine- or 10-handed game, that you'd almost suggest getting some of the creativity out of your game, because it might be dangerous. Is that true?

DS: I would never advocate not being creative, you know? I think that one of the most important things in no-limit hold'em is being creative and being able to think outside the box in any situation. It's just that in a full-ring game, there's less room to do so; it's not that there is no room, it's just that there are certain plays that you can make when it's three- or fourhanded that you just can't do in a full ring because it's not going to be profitable.

SPG: So, for people that try to get too creative, then, you think that it would end up being dangerous in a full-ring game?

DS: Yes, I'd say so. Well, it's not an absolute thing; it's not that you can't ever make a move or get out of line, it's just that there's way more of a case for just making the standard play and not as much room for getting a little crazy.

SPG: Tell us some strategy specific to shorthanded cash games that you think may not be that well-known.

DS: It depends on who I'm talking to for what's well-know or not. I think a lot of more old-school players have a much more traditional sense of how to play preflop. [They think that] if you get a pocket pair, you should generally just play it for one raise or try to limp in and hit your set; you don't want to put in a lot of money preflop. And then if you have a big pair you want to reraise and try to build the pot, or if you have A-K. But the fact is, the way that online games are right now, especially shorthanded games, they're much more about being able to balance your ranges in any given situation. So, if somebody raises the cutoff and you're on the button holding 7-5 suited, you can reraise there a lot of the time to try to put pressure on your opponents, because if all you're doing is reraising with your big pairs, then it's going to be really easy to play against you.

People also sometimes don't realize that, when playing online, it's not just about playing the odds and math, there's a huge element of getting reads on the other players. It's kind of like live where you can get physical tells. You can definitely get reads on players if you play against them regularly. You can get timing tells on players. I think timing tells are a big part of online poker … well, I don't know if I would say "big part," but it's definitely a factor in decisions for online poker, especially when you're playing against a lot of amateur players; they're not conscious of their timing. They might always bet fast if they're on a bluff or they might always pretend to think for a while if they're on a value-bet, or vice versa.

I think those two things are pretty big. I think something that is also not very well-known is that players think that they can defend their hands much more regularly in the blinds than they actually should. They think that because they're in the big blind they're getting a discount, that they can call with a much wider range of hands if somebody is raising. But the truth is that as much as it's nice to have to pay one less big blind to see the flop, the fact is that you're going to be out of position almost always. And it's going to be extremely hard to play against a good player if you're constantly playing hands that you shouldn't be playing from the blinds.

SPG: Can you give us an example of a move or strategy that you might use that would be considered radical or unconventional?

DS: I think the overbet is something that is a very dangerous thing to incorporate into your game, because if you do it improperly or someone figures you out, you're just going to lose your money that much faster. But if you're able to overbet properly, with the proper frequency for bluffs and for value-bets, and to get into your opponent's heads and try to think what he'll interpret an overbet as, then you can really start to make extra money on a lot of your hands. Because the truth is, in a lot of situations, if a lot of the players you are playing against are doing the same thing, if they have the same general strategy as you do, it's going to be hard to make money off of them. They're basically playing the same game as you. Not that any two players really play the same game, but one of the most important things when you're playing high-stakes cash games is finding every tiny, little, possible extra edge and really exploiting it as best you can. So, I think that if you can properly use overbets in your game, you're really going to profit.

SPG: Also, and I forget who said it, but someone once said that people who are confused generally call, and an overbet can certainly confuse someone.

DS: Yeah, that's a good point, too. And that goes back to the whole creativity thing that I was talking about, earlier. When you start taking these lines that aren't standard, you start making plays that might not really make sense to your opponents. It basically puts them out of their comfort zone, and then they start making decisions that are irrational or without basis.

SPG: You also play in multitable tournaments. Do you agree with the many players who claim that cash games are more profitable than tournaments?

DS: It depends. There are a lot of tournament players who wouldn't be able to make money at cash games, so, for them, tournaments are more profitable. But, as a whole, cash games are fundamentally more profitable, there's no question. There's actually no way that you can play as an online tournament player and make more money, if you're winning, than a winning $25-$50 player, for example. You're just not going to do it. The absolute best, best tournament players could probably be making money at cash games, too, but they're already making a lot of money at tournaments.

It's a matter of preference, really. The way the game is structured, fundamentally, you're going to be making more at cash games than tournaments, but some people are better at tournaments, or they prefer the game, so they're going to be making more at tournaments.

SPG: But it sounds like you make more money in cash games than you do in tournaments?

DS: Yeah, I do, but I do make some money in tournaments, as well. I only play in high-stakes tournaments. I use tournaments kind of as a supplement to cash games because there are a lot of tournaments that have a really good amount of value in them, and every once in a while you'll get lucky and have a huge score. It's also good to keep playing in them online to stay on top of my tournament game for when I go to play in the live events, to make sure that I'm not rusty in tournament situations.

SPG: You provide video training for PokerSavvy Plus. I think that some people use a product like the video training that you do and think it's good, logical, sound advice, but then when it comes time for them to actually implement it, they forget all about the lessons they've been taught and they revert back to their normal playing styles. If that's the case for some people, what do you think is the best way to take advantage of the training you offer?

DS: I think that one of the most important things when you're playing poker is that it's not just about what you know - because like you said, you can be the most knowledgeable player in the world, but then when you're actually put in a situation, sometimes it can all go over your head and you get nervous and you forget - it's really all about making sure that you're comfortable where you're playing. Make sure that you're not playing stakes that you're uncomfortable with, that you're not playing too many tables so that you can't even focus. Just make sure that, if you need to, you play just one table of a low-stakes game for a while. Just make sure that you've got your fundamentals down, and then you can gradually step up the stakes or play more hands. Basically, it's all about focus. Make sure you're in the right zone and that you're in the right mindset to be playing.

I think it's kind of silly the way that some people call poker a sport, but in some senses it is a sport. Like, in baseball, why does Alex Rodriguez go through slumps? It's not that he's incapable of hitting baseballs, it's just that it's all a mental battle, sometimes.

SPG: What's the best way to focus when playing online poker amid all of the distractions that are inherent in having an Internet connection?

DS: I think it's very much a personal thing. I'd say that a good amount of the time, when I'm playing, I'm also talking to friends. At the same time, I'm also sending them hands and asking them what they think of my play or what they think about certain opponents. And I know that I can do that; even if I'm playing on a few tables, I know that I can focus and divert just a tiny bit of my attention to instant messaging.

But I think, for most people, they're probably better off just completely shutting themselves off and just focusing. Turn off Internet Explorer, turn off AIM [AOL Instant Messenger], or whatever you use, don't check your e-mail, and just commit all of your mental capacity to playing. Try your best to focus on the situation at hand.

SPG: Thanks for doing this interview, Dani.

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