Celebrity Poker Showdown

You've probably noticed a poker TV show on the air that doesn't feature professional poker players and is aimed more toward Holly Homemaker than Frat-house Freddie. Likewise, its viewers are more likely to read US Weekly, Star, and even Vanity Fair than Maxim, FHM, or the annual Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue.

The show – Celebrity Poker Showdown on Bravo – features actors, musicians, sports figures, and comedians who play for their favorite charities. "But who wants to watch a bunch of non-poker players playing poker?" you might ask. Well, an average of a million viewers have tuned into each episode (making it one of the biggest hits for the basic-cable network), as more than $1 million has been raised for dozens of worthwhile charities.

Recently, I had lunch with actor Joshua Malina (Sports Night, West Wing) and actor-writer-producer Andrew Hill Newman, the show's creators and (along with Marcia Mulé and Bryan Scott of Picture This TV) co-executive producers. While there, I was able to pick the brains of these two longtime comrades.

The cover's photo features (standing, left to right) co-executive producer Bryan Scott, Joshua Malina, Andrew Hill Newman, and co-executive producer Marcia Mulé (seated).

Celebrity Players Tony Hawk Shannon Elizabeth Matthew Perry Sara Silverman Dave Navarro Emily Procter Christopher Meloni Michael Vartan Dennis Rodman Chevy Chase

Michael Shulman: Why is Cingular Wireless no longer the official sponsor (having been replaced by NetZero Internet)?

Josh Malina: While this is a question probably best posed to Cingular, as best we can tell, somewhere in the middle of the second season, someone from Cingular must've actually watched the show and realized there was gambling and drinking and occasional profanity involved.

Andy Newman: Strange, poker should involve any of the above, huh?

MS: Of the four tournaments you've shot thus far, which has been your favorite?

AN: If you're talking about seasons, they keep getting better and better. They honestly do, because the people who come on have seen it – and know what it is. It's a known entity. They know they're there to have a good time. They've heard that everyone who's been there before has had a good time. And then that vibe permeates the whole thing and everyone has a good time.

The level of play, although nowhere near professional caliber, has elevated quite a bit. You get beginners like Penn Jillette, who had never played poker before and – while a Las Vegas local and headliner – never gambles; but he learned from some of the top pros in two weeks. And, yes, he went out first, but the reason he went out was that he was playing advanced aggressive poker. He was the most advanced beginner I think we ever had at the table.

You wanna go for sheer comedy and chemistry at the table? I think the Wanda Sykes episode with Travis Tritt …

JM: Definitely!

AN: I think besides Wanda's hilarity and the wonderful frik-n-frak between her and Travis …

JM: That's what I love, those unpredictable things …

AN: One of the things that Josh and I always felt would be great about this (when the show was still just an idea) was the wonderful eclectic mixes of celebrities – people who were famous for different reasons. Having a football player, a country singer, a comedienne, and two actresses, it's kind of like, "What're all these people doing at the same place?" And that's what made it fantastic and funny.

MS: So, of all of those different types of people, it'd be almost inconceivable, then, not to have at least one comedian?

JM: That's actually one of our unwritten rules: not necessarily a "comedian," per se, but that some sort of "comic entity" will always be in the game.

MS: Speaking of comic relief, what were some of the funniest backstage antics that never made it on camera?

AN: Well, the funniest thing that people never got to see was in the championship game of the first tournament.

JM: It was Nicole Sullivan, David Cross (Mr. Show, Arrested Development), Paul Rudd (Clueless, Friends), Willie Garson (Sex and the City), and Richard Schiff (The West Wing).

AN: One of our "nightmare scenarios," of course, is that we get a game that isn't long enough to fill the whole show.

JM: I had actually walked into the room and verbalized it, saying, "My biggest nightmare is that you all go all in on one of the earlier hands, and this thing's over in 20 minutes!"

AN:He left the room, and (co-host) Phil Gordon said, "OK! Here's how ya do it!" And they orchestrated a prank on us.

JM: They destroyed us!

AN:And they did it extremely well. I'm in the truck, so I see the holecards. Josh does not. Preflop, everybody's in; I mean, if it was raised, it was raised only a little bit.

JM: Now, we were excited, because almost always, the very first hand's gonna make it onto the broadcast. So, the cards are dealt, and we've got a five-hander? Wow!

AN: So, everybody's in, it's a friendly pot. The flop comes, someone bets, someone raises, someone else reraises all in, call, call, call. All of a sudden, there's three people all in! Then, there's four people all in, and I'm looking at the downcards in the truck and saying, "I see why this person did it. I'm not sure why this person did it." I still have no idea it's a joke.

JM: Meanwhile, on the headset, all I'm hearing is that the truck is going absolutely nuts!

AN: Oh, yeah! 'Cause I've got these network executives going bananas! Then, Richard Schiff says, "Screw it!" and moves all in. So, we hold the deal.

JM: Now keep in mind, there's $100,000 on the line, and we're in Vegas – we have to deal! We were like, let's give them all $5,000 and they can play for fun, but we have to deal this hand out!

AH: So, what happened is this: After a few minutes of nothing, the cast all stands up and points at Josh and says, "Ha-ha – just kidding!"

JM: Now, not one of us even raised the specter of the possibility that it might not have been real. I mean, they nailed us!

AH: Then, we had to call the lawyers in New York to find out what to do; I mean, this was for a game show, after all. We had to get everyone on camera saying it was, in fact, a joke. So, we go to each of them, one by one, and all's well – until it gets to Paul Rudd, who looks right at the camera and says, "Nobody told me … it was supposed to be a joke."

JM: It was horribly wrong!

MS: What is your dream Celebrity Poker Showdown table?

JM: Ah … There are message boards that do this, by the way.

A reluctant friend that I really want on the show is Mike Myers, who's a big fan of the show, because he's just one of the funniest men on the planet. I'd love to have Elvis Costello at the table, and I'd love to have Johnny Carson at the table. I'd also love to get Steve Martin.

JM: We've been told he's a big fan of the show. I'd also like to get Tom Hanks!

AH: Word has it that he and his son watch the show together, regularly.

AH: I'd love, love, love to have Mel Brooks on the show. Yeah, Mel Brooks – dream booking … Carson – dream booking …

JM: I'd like to book Hillary and Bill Clinton, and people who don't play; some grand-dame type, like Dame Helen Mirren or Dame Judi Dench.

MS: What if you could get a reunion of any one sitcom around the table, what would it be?

JM: Oh, that's a good question.

AH: I know they're not with us anymore, but The Honeymooners.

MS: Let's try to keep it to the realm of the living – a séance-free episode of CPS …

JM: Well, there's the obvious, like the Friends cast.

MS: OK. Moving right along, what about your favorite poker anecdotes from your real lives?

JM: My favorite poker anecdote? I am playing poker with Noah Emmerich (The Truman Show, Cellular), who's been a good friend of mine forever; there were these $20-$40 limit hold'em games we'd go play in twice a week at The Bicycle Casino.

So, we were at the Bike, playing $20-$40. He calls $20 and there are two raises, so it's another $40 back to him. Now, he shows me his hand, and it's the J 9 – a pretty mediocre hand. I mean, the fact that he'd made the one bet was questionable.

So, he throws it away. Then, the flop comes Q 10 8 – so he would've had a straight flush. And he literally – no joke – screamed, "Aaaargh!" and then toppled backward out of his chair and onto the floor.

AH: My favorite poker anecdote is about the first tournament I ever played in, which was also at the Bike, in about 1992. I was out in like 15 minutes. I was terrible. I knew nothing about hold'em – or very little. I was just learning. I had $20 left to my name, and I sat down at a $1-$2 hold'em table. I was down to my last $4 – and hit the jackpot! I won $1,750!

JM: Very nice …

AH: My pocket queens drop-kicked ace-ace-ace. A woman had an ace with a kicker that beat the board, so her quads beat my aces full of queens and I got the big end of the $2,500 jackpot. After thinking I was a terrible tournament player – well, I was a terrible tournament player – and my last $4 was about to be lost, I won a jackpot at the Bike!

JM: I've never even been near a jackpot!

AH: That and beating Amir Vahedi in the game after we wrapped the first season are my two favorite stories.

Ben Affleck had a private game after we wrapped our first set of tournaments at the Palms. Phil Gordon, Kevin Pollack (host of the first season), David Schwimmer (Friends), Paul Rudd, Amir Vahedi, Ben, and I played. It was the biggest game I'd ever sat down in. At one point on the turn, I had top pair and an open-end straight draw. I made what was for me a very large bet of a couple hundred dollars. Amir raises me to $600. Now, without thinking, I go all in, which put me in over $1,000, making it the largest single bet I'd ever made on a poker hand.

Amir now sweats me for, like, three minutes. He was all, "What you got? You got ace-king? You got ace-queen?"

Finally, he lays down his hand, and as he does so, he turns it faceup. He showed two pair. He was ahead of me! He thought I had the king-high straight! It was pretty great, because here I was taking the largest pot I'd ever bet into from a guy with a World Series bracelet!

MS: Although you two met almost 25 years ago, you became reacquainted over poker out here in Los Angeles. How did that happen?

AN: When I moved out here to L.A., the things I missed the most from New York were Sal & Carmine's Pizza and playing poker, not to mention Empire Szechwan on the Upper West Side. And then Josh and I met again in the Hank Azaria game.

JM: Many, many years ago …

AH: He was in it before I …

JM: I was briefly thrown out of the game …

MS: You were 86'd?! Hot!

JM: It was a very awkward, weird phone call. Hank called me, and basically said, "This is a very awkward thing I have to say, but I have to ask you not to come anymore."

Well, you should know that the other day, guys were winning two and three thousand dollars, but it was much lower stakes then, and it was the kind of thing where you'd play a hand and then everyone would get up and eat a sandwich. You'd play two hands, and everyone would get up and have a drink.

MS: Ah – my kind of game.

JM: I was the guy going, "For the love of Christ, would somebody just deal, already?! Who's dealing here?" I was that guy.

MS: Exactly. You are the guy whose listing on IMDB in the trivia section reads: "Avid poker player; played to pay his rent when he struggled as an actor."

JM: Actually, you can't believe everything you read, although that post is true, because for a while some of our friends were posting false facts. One friend posted that I am 5 feet 4 inches tall [Newman lets out a loud laugh, because Malina is actually 5 feet 9 inches tall], and that I'd never worked in anything not written by Aaron [Sorkin].

AH: I got into Hank's game by doing a guest shot on Blossom. David Pressman, another actor here in town, asked if I played poker, and I said, "Yes, I do."

"Well," David said, "my friend's on Herman's Head and it's shooting next door. Do you want to go over to his dressing room?"

"Sure … "

It turns out it's Hank Azaria, Kenny Campbell, Billy Ragsdale, Peter Mackenzie – a bunch of guys from the show. We played poker, and I doubled my salary that week. They invited me to their home game to try to win some of it back. It was then hosted by a young actor by the name of Matthew Perry (not yet known to everyone as he is known today, as he had not yet done Friends). And that's what is today the game hosted by Hank.

JM: I was eventually let back into the game, and now everybody is as serious as I am.

AH: It's to the point that last night, for the first time, we hired a special dealer, to keep up the hand count.

JM: I, meanwhile, got out of college, and became good friends with Aaron Sorkin (A Few Good Men, The West Wing). We bonded greatly over poker, and used to play poker at his house about twice a week. Then, I moved out to Los Angeles with Noah Emmerich and we got a poker table, and we had the felt taken off and billiard felt put on. I don't even know why.

MS: Is there a difference?

JM: I don't know. I can't remember what feature of billiard felt we thought was big-time to have on a poker table, but we had it done, and we had it stained to be the color we wanted. I mean – it was huge! We were two bachelors with only mustard in the fridge, but we had this fantastic poker table!

And then – one by one – for our very first poker game, every single person cancelled! I mean, literally, we were close to crying. We were crestfallen! And then I looked at Noah and said I had a memory of a poker club somewhere in L.A.

And in my mind it was illegal, and I didn't know how to find it. I didn't know what the password was, or if you had to be a member. So, I literally called the operator and said [lowers his voice to a very meek almost-whisper], "Can I have the number for Poker Club?"

"Please hold, sir … "

"Please hold!" Then, I got a phone number. So, I called, and some man answered.

"Hello, do you have poker?"

"Yeah, we have poker."

"Uh – right now?"

"Yeah, right now."

"Can we come now?"

"Yeah, anytime!"

So, I got the directions and went, expecting this shady little place, and when I pulled off the freeway – I saw this enormous casino! So, my life changed that day. From then on, we were there all the time.

We even drove there one night during the L.A. riots. There was a curfew, and we actually called to see if they were open. There was absolutely no traffic. It was biblical!

MS: What's your favorite cardroom in L.A.? Dave Navarro says he likes Hustler.

AH: Oh, I've got a great Hustler story. I was on jury duty in Compton, and the Hustler is a two-minute drive from the courthouse there. So, I drove to Hustler every day for the $2 lunch special and played for 40 minutes – which is no way to play poker. And out of 15 sessions, which is how long the trial lasted, I had one losing session.

I like Hustler because the dealers are nice and there's a lot of room between the tables. I also like Hollywood Park because it's the closest casino to my house. And the one that's my favorite right now because it's the biggest is Commerce.

MS: What about in Vegas?

AH: Bellagio's the best room because it has my favorite chairs: They go up and down and swivel around.

And the Palms' new high-limit room is fantastic! The last time we were in town, that was the only place we played!

JM: We're very proud, because we like to think we've had a hand in bringing poker to the Palms. And, of course, the Palms was the first place we thought of to do the show.

JM: Well, I'll tell you what I like: I like the little hole-in-the-wall poker places in New York, these days.

MS: I love how they were portrayed in Rounders – all very elegant, you know? I never went to one until after I'd seen Rounders, and I went to the Mayfair Club. When I walked in, it was a bit of a shock, because it was so not what I'd been expecting. I was anticipating a posh interior, with ebony walls and deep-pile carpeting, and some supermodel hostess with mahogany racks of ivory chips waiting to show you to your seat … boy, was I wrong!

AH: Like the Ritz Club in London – it's very James Bond. Yeah, in New York, the décor may not be fantastic, but the clientele is so much more, um, you know …

MS: Do you find that there's a correlation between being a good poker player and being one who is good in business – being able to read people, making sound business decisions, and so on?

JM: I absolutely do.

MS: There's a school of thought that subscribes to the theory that poker should be taught in business school; that MBA candidates should attend poker seminars. What do you think of that?

JM: Great! I love it! I heartily endorse it, because it's a very similar skill set. Every time I've negotiated for an acting job, it's been a matter of how far I can push it. This is payback for the risk you're taking without essentially losing the entire hand.

AH: And then there's the ability to get away from those bad hands.

JM: Exactly! There's a lot of bluffing in business. I know I've said no to lots of things I couldn't afford to say no to, but have ultimately gotten more money as a result of it. Of course, you can ultimately pay the price if someone outfoxes you and calls your bluff.

AH: There are lots of books on game theory that use poker examples and business-world examples to illustrate the same points of being able to quantify qualitative things, like your opponent's or your negotiating partner's motivations. "If I do this, then I get that." You know – the chess game of it all.

MS: What do you think of the way in which poker has taken hold of Hollywood and not let go?

JM: It's fantastic. Well, first of all, it's always been there – certainly, without getting any of the attention it currently receives, but it's always been there. People have always been crazy about poker. I've been playing hold'em for 15 years. Now, it's just sort of caught fire in a very visible way, and I'm really hoping it doesn't go the way of the cigar.

That's my big fear! It's not that people aren't smoking cigars anymore, but there were those magazines, and all that hoopla. I think poker's just gonna have a longer shelf life. It's an adrenaline rush.

MS: Well, certainly, casinos haven't gone out of style. Las Vegas definitely hasn't gone out of style.

JM: TV has basically revealed that poker – especially no-limit hold'em – is sort of a battle of wits. So, people who were never even drawn to card games have gravitated toward what is clearly a form of engaging in psychological warfare.

MS: I don't think I could've said it better myself.