All In, Hands Faceup

Back in the old days of tournament poker (prior to 2001), things were done differently. When a player was all in, no one turned his hand over. You had to sweat not only the turn and the river, but also what cards your opponent held; more mystery, less transparency.

In 2001, the Tournament Directors Association (TDA) was formed. One of the rules that the TDA implemented read as follows: “All cards will be turned faceup once a player is all in and all action is complete.”

The rule was implemented for two reasons: to prevent collusion and to add excitement to tournament poker.

At the time, I didn’t like the rule. Anything that prevents collusion is good, but I didn’t think the rule would prevent it. If two players were going to collude, this rule wouldn’t stop them. The theory behind the rule was that players could not dump chips to a confederate by calling with nothing. I also didn’t like the rule when it came to “adding excitement.” I thought it was taking something away from the game, and would make players play better, because they’d know that if they made an all-in call, they would have to show their hand. Looking back, it was a rule that had to be implemented; it was one of the reasons that televised poker became so interesting to watch, being able to see the excitement build as the boardcards were dealt

Fast-forward to today. The rule is one that is just a part of the game — without a doubt, something that people would question if it weren’t in place. And while the rule, as it is written, works great, enforcement of it has allowed a problem to creep in.

The problem lies in all-in situations on the river. When an all-in situation occurs preflop, on the flop, or on the turn, there are no issues. The players turn their hands up, the cards are run out, and the winner is pushed the pot. But what happens when there is an all-in bet or call on the river? Usually, the best hand is shown, the losing hand is mucked, and someone walks away from the table. That can’t happen.

I was playing in a tournament at Commerce Casino recently when this same situation happened. It was a rebuy tournament and one of the players called an all-in bet and lost. He tossed his hand forward and reached for rebuy money. As he was doing this, the dealer turned his hand faceup, then mucked it. The player got angry and asked the dealer why she had turned his hand up. Realizing that I could calm the situation quickly, I reminded him of the rule that forces all hands to be turned faceup when an all-in situation occurs. The player thought about it for a minute, then said to me, “Oh, yeah, I had never thought about it in this situation.”

This is not a rule that is ambiguous or unclear. There is no question about it. The rule is intended to prevent collusion, and because of that, it cannot be selectively enforced. When there is an all-in bet and a call, with no further action pending, all hands must be turned faceup — period.

Two high-profile incidents have occurred recently that highlight this point.

At Foxwoods, during the World Poker Finals, J.C. Tran was involved in a hand in which another player moved all in on a flop of 9-9-8. J.C. called and turned over J-9. The other player, seeing J.C.’s three nines, looked back at his hand and then flung his cards toward the muck. The dealer immediately turned over the hand — A-7. The turn was a 5 and the river a 6. Controversy ensued. This incident was caught on video by CardPlayer.com, and it was obvious that the player tried to muck his hand. Ultimately, the floorperson ruled that the hand was live, and that player won the pot — which was the correct decision. The rule states that players must turn over their cards, not that they can if they want to.

Another situation happened recently in the Wynn Poker Classic main event.

As reported by CardPlayer.com:

On a board reading K-10-8-K-4, Scott Seiver moved all in and Jimmy Fricke went into the tank. Eventually, Fricke made the call and Seiver said, “You win,” as he slightly motioned his cards forward.

Fricke revealed A-Q and Seiver exploded, saying, “Oh, no, I had deuces!” Seiver went to flip up his cards, but the dealer had already mucked them, and the floorman would not let him retrieve them. The tournament director came over and asked the dealer whether or not Seiver’s hand was ever tabled. The dealer informed him that his pocket deuces were in fact never tabled and that the floorman had instructed her to award the pot and everything Seiver had behind to Fricke.

At this point, Seiver was livid, screaming and demanding to see a supervisor. For a short while, he refused to leave the table, pleading his case that he never mucked his cards. Seiver explained, frantically, that he was moving his hands forward only in an effort to show down his hand.

The explanation did no good, and Seiver was eliminated, though not without trying to see some sort of supervisor on his way out.

I spoke with poker management at Wynn Las Vegas to figure out why the decision was made not to award the pot to the best hand. The response I received was that the hand was not retrievable, as it was mixed into the muck. If that was the case, there was nothing that could be done to correct the situation. The right decision was made.

Matt Savage, one of the founders of the TDA, agreed with me that dealers need to do a better job of protecting the integrity of tournaments by enforcing this rule. It is a dealer’s job to stop a hand from being mucked when, according to the rules, it can’t be mucked. I have no objection to dealers turning hands faceup, as the dealer did at Foxwoods, and neither does Matt. But given that this rule has not been strictly enforced over the years, I can see why calling a floorman might be a better option until players better understand this part of the rule.

In discussing this situation, several people have referenced the following TDA rule as being contradictory to the rule mentioned above: “If a dealer kills an unprotected hand, the player will have no redress and will not be entitled to a refund of bets.  However, if a player had raised and the raise had not yet been called, the raise will be returned to the player.”

I don’t think the rule is contradictory, but I can see how it could be misleading. Matt has agreed that better wording is probably needed.
In the meantime, take note: In tournaments, when there is an all-in bet and a call, all hands must be turned up.

Mike O’Malley is a consultant for www.PartyGaming.com, and can be reached at [email protected]. His website is updated regularly at www.rzitup.com.